visitation rights violated... complicated

[tony sypa]

i live in new york city


i have been divorced for over 10 years. at the time my ex did everything in her power to stop me from having visitation with my two children, she had me submit to drug tests, psychological evaluation, you name it. in the judges wisdom she realized this woman was being spiteful and awarded me full visitations every other weekend.

it is now 11 years later. my son is 20 and has a life of his own.he works weekends, has a girlfriend. he no longer comes to sleep over dad's every other weekend, but he does from time to time. we have a good relationship.

my 15 year old daughter is a different story. the last time i saw her was in august. i was patient and tried working with her. in october she told me she no longer wants to see me or talk to me. i have tried calling her, tried to be patient. her mom is no help, doesn't even try to help, doesn't even pick up the phone. i waited until the holidays to see if she would come for x-mas but she did not.

i filed a petition against the mother for violation of our court ordered visitation agreement. i also filed for custody on the grounds the mother disparages me in front of the children and has basically turned my girl against me. i have no doubt i can prove this in court. any outsider who meets both of us can tell the contempt and hatred she has for me, even still after all these years. she hates me more than she loves her children, that's the bottom line.

i wish i can afford a lawyer but i cannot. although i make decent money, i have 3 kids with two different exes and pay as much in child support as i take home. the system basically leaves divorced fathers for dead, as if we've done a great crime because these women decided they no longer wanted to be married to us....but that's a story for another time. the point is i'll be my own lawyer which will put me behind the 8 ball immeadiately.

we go to court on january 10th for the first time. i have no idea what to do or say or ask. i am going to tell my story and tell her lawyer i will drop custody fight for my weekends again. that's all i really want is my time with my daughter. i don't want a big fight, i just want what i already won 10 years ago. i believe me and my daughter will straighten this out ourselves if given the time together.
but my ex is always ready for a fight where i'm concerned and instead of even talking to me is ready to go to court. i don't get it. i'm not perfect, but i've been a good dad all these years. i've sacrificed my time and money and done all i can for my kids. i don't deserve to have my girl brainwashed and call me a " bum" and other choice things

my questions are....

what do i do ... i can put my son, 20, who lives with her on a witness stand and he will tell the truth and testify how his mother talks bad about me and influences his sister. and once she herself gets on the stand i have no doubt her nastiness and hatred towards me will shine on through. ( i actually feel bad and pray for her, nthat god should lift this hatred from her soul, it must be terrible to live with that.)

what are my chances .... and if i lose does that mean i won't see my daughter again? or at least until she grows up realizes she made a mistake, feels bad and contacts me... all those lost years.....

can someone help? is there a lawyer out there who will advise me? is there someone out there who has been through something like this who will lend emotional support?

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

The court wants all kids to see both parents; tell your story just as you have done here and you will likely prevail. You could even show the judge your post here as it certainly summarizes your dilemma and shows your reasonableness and intention to try to do the best for the kids..

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

ok... went to court wednesday ..... my daughter was assigned asan acs lawyer who will be contacting me and the case was put off until march 8th ....

i spoke to someone who tells me because the child is 15 they will let her make up her own mind.... i feel as though as though i am in a no win situation ... all i know is i love her, and miss her, and i gotta try something...

i will keep informed, so that all who read behind me, who may be in similar situation, have a better understanding

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

...yes let us know how it goes...you should prevail...

[tony sypa]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

so went back to court today..... she brought our daughter.
we saw the judge's lawyer and he knew we were going nowhere fast ... i told my daughter's mom i would drop everything if we all went to family counciling .. naturally she said no ....
so we went before the judge... i immeadiately felt the judges hostility when she became upset with me saying i filed incorrectly because the original custody award happened on the divorce and i should have filed for a modification instead ... she said it very annoyed ... and i'm like " oh great, she doesn't like me already for some clerical bull, how was i supposed to know, i'm trying to do this without a lawyer.
after that i thought it went ok ... i stated my case, that my visitation agreement was being violated in multiple ways. she was not producing the child, not giving me information about her health, school and other info, that i was being denied phone contact, and she was disparaging me in front of the child. the mother tried to say she didn't talk to me on the phone because i yell and curse. i said that was a flat out lie, which it is. she doesn't even pick up the phone. i believe i can prove that next time by bringing in my phone records. every night in the month of february, i make a call to the house and it is less than a minute long, because i leave a message in the answering machine ... there is never any conversation and all calls are under one minute.
so then the judge appointed my daughter a legal guardian, and said we'll deal with the visitation violation next time after the guardian speaks to us all. she questioned my petetion for custody, stating this is only done in extreme cases, neglect, proving the custodial parent was a bad parent.... i explained that besides violating the visitation, there is legal precedent in ny state that a child can be removed from one parent and given to the other if proven the parent disparages against the non-custodial parent and turns the child against that parent. i explained i didn't believe it was a good thing to take my daughter out of her home, her school , from her friends, that all i wanted was my time with my daughter, but that my rights, which i had already won 11 years earlier, were being violated and as long as it continued she gave me no other recourse. the judge said she would leave it on the calander for now, until she gets a full report from the law guardian. the case was postponed until april 26th.
i later ran into a lawyer in the bathroom, who was sitting in the back while our case was on. he told me i handled myself well in there, better than some lawyers. and that the fact the judge didn't dismiss my custody case offhand was a good sign that she is listening to my arguements. this made me feel better. although my heart is still heavy because my daughter was there ready to testify she didn't want to come see me. the judge was a little annoyed the mom took her out of school to go to court.
i feel my next move is this: to write down the history and all my grievences , and arguements,in detail for my meeting with the law guardian.
research and present cases where custody was given to the other parent for the reasons i described earlier, and find out what legal grounds need to be proven and satisfied. then show how my case parralells those cases and show this case meets that criteria. but i will stress , all i want is to see my daughter, barring that, i think we all need some family therapy. it isn't normal for a 15 year old girl to all of a sudden out of nowhere no longer want to see or talk to her father. nor is it normal for the mom to advocate that, how can that be good for the child?
i think i'm doing ok, but the key now is to win over the guardian and convince her we should go for family therapy.
she didn't come with a lawyer... and i know i can out lawyer her if she doesn't get a lawyer in the future. i'm cautiously optimistic, but alot is riding on a one hour meeting with the law guardian.
comments???!!!! suggestions ???!!!! god i'm scared i'm going to lose my daughter forever.... i love her so....

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

and on it goes... went to court ... postponed .. hearing slated to start next visit

[msgny]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

why postponed?

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

well i guess not postponed ... just moved on ... i was told next time we will be given a date for our hearing to start .. why they needed an extra adjurnment for that i don't know.

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

well i might as well tell you the outcome ... i lost ...
seems at 16 they believe the child is old enough to decide for themselves. so my daughter went before the judge and told her she didn't want to see me anymore. gave her some b.s. reasons and even lied.
the judge , in her ruling, icould see felt bad for me, but there was nothing legally that she could do .. she asked me if i wanted a full hearing, but i declined. that would have meant putting my sons on the witness stand, and my family is divided enough, i didn't need to get them in trouble with thier mom ... i figured some day , when she older and matured, she'd realize her mistake and come talk to me about it.

well that was in july ... in october my aunt died, she came to the wake and spoke to me as though nothing happened. now i invited her to come for christmas , expecting her to say no..... but she's coming ...

don't me get wrong , i'm thankful to have my family whole and together again ... but i mean ... what was that all for ...?

the bottom line ... in the eyes of the court, once the child hits a certain age where they determine the child can decide for themselves ... the father loses all rights, whether there is cause or not .... great system ...

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

well i might as well tell you the outcome ... i lost ...
seems at 16 they believe the child is old enough to decide for themselves. so my daughter went before the judge and told her she didn't want to see me anymore. gave her some b.s. reasons and even lied.
the judge , in her ruling, icould see felt bad for me, but there was nothing legally that she could do .. she asked me if i wanted a full hearing, but i declined. that would have meant putting my sons on the witness stand, and my family is divided enough, i didn't need to get them in trouble with thier mom ... i figured some day , when she older and matured, she'd realize her mistake and come talk to me about it.

well that was in july ... in october my aunt died, she came to the wake and spoke to me as though nothing happened. now i invited her to come for christmas , expecting her to say no..... but she's coming ...

don't me get wrong , i'm thankful to have my family whole and together again ... but i mean ... what was that all for ...?

the bottom line ... in the eyes of the court, once the child hits a certain age where they determine the child can decide for themselves ... the father loses all rights, whether there is cause or not .... great system ...

I'm so sorry that things happened the way they did. I agree, it's really lousy that a obviously biased Judge didn't do what is right by the law. Children should not be allowed to choose to see a parent, until they are an adult.

I'm glad that your daughter is now wanting to see you, maybe she has matured a little and has come to realize that you do love her. I hope everything works out for you.

[disgusted MOM]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

well here another side I hope for all you scumsucking DAD's...

So after playing games with support for 6 years and still owing money you guys have the nerve to want a change to support after your children turn 21! Ok...so what do I do now??? Throw the child out...a child who maintains a GPA of 3.8 in a pharmacy program ....so do I ask her to work even though she has to maintain this average on a scholarship because her dad doesn't want to pay for any college? WHAT...YOU F-----!! What do you want us to do now??? Please someone tel me..I would like to know how to support this child now when I already work three different jobs just to keep our heads above water....

Scumsucking sons of *****es...then you expect your children to respect you as well....oh ok!!

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

well disgusted mom ... i don't know why your griping your situation to me and calling me a scumsucking father ... i'm sorry if your ex isn't doing the right thing, but what does that have to do with me?
i looked up the figures ... there are 3 million cases of child support in my state. out of those half are current , half are dilinquent. in my case i was unemployed over a year ... while the courts will grant you a temporary lowering, when i found work it went right back to what it was, plus they put me in arrears .. we're talking about 10 g's in arrears .. ok, i'll do what the court says, no choice in that, but is that fair? i think not, i shouldn't have to pay what i wasn't earning .... so i'm in arrears .. i pay it off an extra 100 a week .... do i deserve to called a bum and scumsucking father for trying to do the right thing?
for 12 years i sacrificed .. i sacrificed my time, my personal life was put on a shelf, inever had any money for the things i wanted to do because with child support, with having them every other weekend , it doesn't leave much money or time left for myself .. 12 years, no complaints, i did what i had to do ...
so you have no right .. none at all to judge us fathers who are doing the best we can .... if it were up to half you bitter moms you would leave us living in cardboard box on the street, while you take all our money .. sorry lady ain't happening ... as much as you hate to see it, we will survive.....
furthermore .. our obligation ends at 21 .. if i can help my kids with college i will, but chances are i won't be able to. does that make me a bad person? my parents didn't help me with college, i worked my way through ... were my parents bad? heck no .... don't curse him for your expectations .... he did what he had to do .. and now it's over, he can do for himself .. if she can't take care of herself at 21 that's sad ....

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

oh so you only had every other weekend for yourself...POOR THING!!! what about every day of our lives...we deal with the kids believe me I wouldn't have it any other way but I don't put my time up like you do...I am their mom and that is that. BUT ....so at 21 your obligation is over.,..what about mine...do I kick the kids out now because I still have to feed them? Should I kick out my daughter who maintains a 4.0 average at college because now she should work?? YOU FATHERS...YES YOU SUCK!!!! What a f....n attitude!!!that 's why your kids don't talk to you....

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

oh so you only had every other weekend for yourself...POOR THING!!! what about every day of our lives...we deal with the kids believe me I wouldn't have it any other way but I don't put my time up like you do...I am their mom and that is that. BUT ....so at 21 your obligation is over.,..what about mine...do I kick the kids out now because I still have to feed them? Should I kick out my daughter who maintains a 4.0 average at college because now she should work?? YOU FATHERS...YES YOU SUCK!!!! What a f....n attitude!!!that 's why your kids don't talk to you....


listen disgruntled mom ... you are talking about apples and i am talking about oranges. our experiences couldn't be more different.

In my case i'm a dad who is doing what he is supposed to do. maintain a home for myself adequate enough to have my 3 children sleep over, and when they do, provide food and entertainment. I try to involved as much as i can in children's life. and I pay my child support. in my case i had 3 kids by two women ... that's 25% of my salary for the oldests two mom and 17% to the mom of my youngest. I get no tax credit for any of it the way custodial moms do. and my support isn't even considered income so theat's tax free for them. not to mention the extra cash of covering them on my insurance. would it kill the government to give men who have remained current for the year on thier support, a small tax credit ? can't i deduct that new bunkbed i had to buy for the kids? no instead, i get my bank accounts frozen and my licenses threatened because i had the audacity to get laid off from my job and fall behind in payments.
I've had to deal with a spiteful ex-wife who if it weren't for complaining about me, would have no life. who has tried to influence my children against me for 12 years now. who gave me as little information and co-operation as possible.
and that the mom's get the kids automatically is a farce too. i would have given anything to tuck my kids in every night, to help them with thier homework every night, live life with them every day, not be a separate every other weekend life. i could have raised them too, and it would have been a pleasure. but i was denied that by " the system" so don't complain about having them through thier daily lives .. i would have given my right arm for that.

and while i express my displeasure for the system, i can say proudly that i've done my best at what i've had to do. i was part of children's lives. I believe i'm entitled to a modicum of acknowledgement and respect for being the best dad i could be under hard circumstances. leastways i believe i should have a legal right to see my 16 year old child. that part of the system needs fixing.

as for you, your situation is much different. the father of your child abandoned her. I abhore that type of behavior. not only for the heartbreak he causes his daughter, but because of scumbags like him, that's exactly why these laws are so tough, they even punish the decent dads. believe me ma'am, i'm all for throwing the book at this guy. i'd also like to say , as i'm a proud parent, you should be too . you raised your daughter without that SOB, and she turned out great didn't she ... i salute you.

and by the way ... yes 21 is old enough that your daughter should be working at least part time. my sister's , my son, my nephews an d nieces all worked through college and did fine. i've been working since i'm 16. if they stay in school, should we be obligated to take care of them until thier in thier 30's.

and i gotta say ... you obviously have deep bitterness and hatred in your heart caused by this man ... that's never good ... you should seek psychiatric help, and i'll pray that someday god lifts the anger in your soul.

[Unregistered]

Re: visitation rights violated... complicated

I feel for you and this situation, but it is not just father's rights that are violated. My ex has custody of my now 5 yr old daughter because he kidnapped her before there was a custody agreement in place and has been trying to turn her against me ever since. It's been hell because it's so hard to prove and so hard to get anyone to listen.